Stephen Cass: Hello and welcome to Fixing the Future, an IEEE Spectrum podcast, the place we take a look at concrete options to some large issues. I’m your host, Stephen Cass, a senior editor at IEEE Spectrum. And earlier than we begin, I simply wish to let you know which you could get the most recent protection from a few of Spectrum’s most essential beats, together with AI, local weather change, and robotics, by signing up for one among our free newsletters. Just go to spectrum.ieee.org/newsletters to subscribe. Sustainable electronics is changing into an more and more essential matter all over the world, and right now we’re going to be speaking with Liisa Hakola, a senior scientist at VTT in Finland, in regards to the European Union’s Sustronics program geared toward this very matter. I’d wish to welcome you to the present. Thank you a lot, Liisa.
Liisa Hakola: Thank you. Nice to be right here. Thank you for inviting.
Cass: You’re very welcome. So as I stated, sustainable electronics is changing into a much bigger and larger matter, however it appears to be a type of issues that individuals discuss it greater than really doing something about it. How is the EU Sustronics undertaking going to assist with that, and the place does VTT match into that?
Hakola: Thank you for the query. Indeed, the Sustronics undertaking is a big initiative with 46 companions from 11 completely different European nations. And our fundamental matter is about discovering methods to make electronics extra sustainable all through their life cycle. So not simply specializing in one facet however making an allowance for completely different alternatives that may come up from choice of supplies or manufacturing applied sciences or round financial methods that might be used. And VTT’s position is, to begin with, to be the technical supervisor of the undertaking to make sure that the completely different companions work collectively and the completely different actions are interacting with one another as a way to have a joint effort. But on prime of that, VTT additionally brings a few of its applied sciences, primarily from printed electronics, to the undertaking.
Cass: Is it a case that you simply search for trade companions who then are available and work with you? They go searching. They suppose you’re an excellent match throughout the program. Or are you actively looking for folks and going, “Oh, we think we have some technology that might help you out here”?
Hakola: Well, principally, I feel they’re each methods. Of course, there are 46 companions already within the consortium, and over half of them are from the trade, giant enterprises and SMEs. So in fact, they’ve particular wants, and we’ve got been already agreeing through the proposal section that VTT may supply sure applied sciences for them to then begin testing for his or her merchandise and if that would assist with lowering their environmental footprint.
Cass: I assume the query is, why would anyone be a part of this system, particularly should you’re a producer and so forth? I imply, as a citizen of Earth, I feel it’s an awesome thought, however we frequently hear about backside-line points and so forth. What’s the inducement, if you’re any individual who’s making electronics, to develop into one among these companions?
Hakola: Well, to begin with, within the EU, we’ve got this Green Deal. So the rules and the laws is creating right into a course the place the entire corporations within the EU need to bear in mind the sustainability elements of the merchandise they’re creating and promoting. So as a way to obtain that, to have the ability to meet the necessities coming from the EU aspect, the businesses have to develop new methods to keep up or enhance sustainability of their merchandise. And that is one alternative as a result of collaborating with the analysis institutes and universities, the businesses get entry to form of applied sciences which have been in improvement in these, after which they’ll attempt them out in their very own merchandise, after which in that approach to get nearer to assembly the sustainability necessities.
Cass: So we’re primarily based in New York, within the United States, the place it’s fairly a distinct regulatory regime. But are you able to inform me, what’s the enforcement mechanism for these sustainability rules? What occurs should you don’t do it? Because I can think about some folks simply pondering, oh, it’s only a slap on the wrist, or it’s a positive. It’s only a value of doing enterprise. How is these guidelines actually enforced?
Hakola: Well, in fact, EU is creating the rules on a regular basis, so there would possibly come new enforcements sooner or later. But the upcoming regulation about ecodesign for sustainable merchandise, in order that regulation calls for that there’s going to be a digital product passport that will give details about the environmental affect of the product. And that form of data could be accessible even for shoppers. So really, if the shoppers are environmentally conscious, they’d begin deciding on the merchandise which are environmentally pleasant. So that’s, in fact, fairly robust approach to make corporations work in the direction of making extra sustainable merchandise. Because if shoppers begin deciding on the sustainable merchandise, then the non-sustainable ones will lose their market share.
Cass: So you talked just a little bit earlier about all the type of lifecycle and sustainability. Along that life cycle, what are a few of the greatest obstacles that at present exist in the direction of making electronics extra sustainable?
Hakola: Well, there are a few issues which are fairly dominant. So to begin with, the uncooked supplies which are used for making digital merchandise, they’re principally fossil-primarily based, like completely different metals which are wanted for making conductive buildings. And additionally, the substrates the place the metals are put, they’re normally primarily based on some plastics or plastic composite supplies. And then we are literally speaking about supplies which are important or uncommon or fairly invaluable. So it’s fairly a problem to search out supplies that would substitute the prevailing supplies as a result of we all know that these are nicely-performing. So can we really discover some sustainable options for them?
And one other factor is, in fact, that the processes which are used for making circuit boards, for instance, they eat numerous vitality and uncooked supplies. And that, in fact, just isn’t superb for the surroundings as a result of it’s not very vitality or materials environment friendly to fabricate in a method that loads of materials is wasted and processed a number of occasions. And in fact, the entire electronics trade is sort of complicated and fragmented trade. There are loads of layers, and it’s actually tough to get all of them to work collectively and type of transparently switch information and data between the completely different gamers.
Cass: So I’d like to enter that—and perhaps that is a few of VTT’s particular experience—and discuss just a little in regards to the work that you simply’ve accomplished in supplies particularly then.
Hakola: Yes. So VTT has targeted rather a lot on changing the fossil-primarily based substrate supplies with supplies which are bio-primarily based or renewable supplies. And nicely, in Finland, the forest trade has sometimes been fairly robust. So in fact, we’ve got studied the right way to use the cellulose-primarily based supplies like paper as a substrate for electronics. But there are additionally loads of these biopolymer-primarily based substrates that are– principally, they appear and feel like plastics, however they’re from bio-primarily based sources, so they’re form of renewable. And a few of them are very easy to recycle, or a few of them may even be compostable.
Cass: You stated compostable there. I’m just a little fearful as a result of I’ve these compostable plastic baggage in my kitchen that simply don’t final very lengthy. And so whenever you say that, I’m just a little involved about placing that in my electronics. Or is it for very quick-lived type of disposable electronics, given a few of them have very quick life cycles?
Hakola: Yes. If we’re speaking about utilizing printing as a producing know-how, so then in fact we’re in a position to manufacture electronics which have a shorter lifetime, and they are often even used only one time. But should you produce loads of electronics that’s for single-use function, then really you might be creating loads of new digital waste. So it’s important to by some means deal with this concern with having single-use electronics, however then having the ability to by some means recycle or dispose that electronics. And in that case, if there may be, for instance, some diagnostic system the place you measure one thing, then most likely there could be a single-use half on that system that would then most likely be compostable. But then there would even be a reusable half. So after doing a little diagnostic measurements, you modify just one piece of the system, after which that changeable half would then be compostable. Or it will also be that the recycling course of is established, and it will be simply recyclable. But in that form of instances, you would possibly take into consideration the compostable options additionally.
Cass: So I’d like to speak just a little bit extra about recycling there. Electronic waste is notoriously very tough to waste. We need to separate out our digital waste and we’ve got to place it elsewhere. There are particular pickup days, which I do dutifully. But then I typically take into consideration when all these things is placed on the valley, how is anyone going to realistically recycle that 10-12 months-outdated damaged projector or these assortment of printers and so forth? How do you make recycling work higher?
Hakola: Well, yeah, that’s in fact a matter of— to begin with, it’s essential set up the recycling course of, and there must be completely different assortment bins the place folks may dispose their electronics. But in fact, I come from Finland. Actually, in my condominium the place I reside, there are one thing like seven completely different recycling bins the place I put the completely different kind of waste. So including there eighth bin for electronics wouldn’t be that large of a problem. But should you suppose recycling additionally from the scratch, then the digital gadgets really need to be designed in a method that they’re higher for recycling. So we discuss round design, for instance. Already within the design section of the merchandise, you really take into consideration the recycling after which design the electronics in a method that it’s, for instance, modular, so you may disintegrate the completely different elements simply and get well the supplies. So really, all the pieces begins within the design section.
Cass: Does this additionally assist with issues like serviceability or repairability? I discover myself that typically it’s simpler for me to restore one thing that’s 40 years outdated. I’ve introduced these merchandise again from the lifeless. But a product I purchase right now, it’s a blob. I’ve to make use of very specialised instruments to get it open, if I can. I typically need to ship away for a particular package. Is a part of this design course of additionally taking a look at these points?
Hakola: Yes, sure. That’s the identical factor that already within the design section. Design the gadgets in a method that elements will be changed afterward, and folks don’t have to purchase the brand new mannequin. I perceive that, in fact, for the electronics corporations, their enterprise to promote new fashions on a regular basis. But maybe they’ll discover a appropriate enterprise mannequin additionally from repairing the gadgets. There might be some enterprise alternatives additionally.
Cass: So you talked just a little bit about manufacturing processes and making these just a little bit extra sustainable. Can you increase on that?
Hakola: So what VTT has been creating for over 20 years is printed electronics. So it implies that we’re utilizing printing as a producing know-how for electronics. And in comparison with the present state-of-the-artwork electronics manufacturing, printing is an additive methodology. So we really add supplies solely the place they’re wanted, and we don’t strip them away afterward after which attempt to determine what to do with that form of materials. So that’s a possibility for digital manufacturing to lower its materials but additionally vitality consumption. We have carried out some life cycle evaluation evaluation the place it has been proven that the printed electronics consumes much less vitality throughout manufacturing than conventional manufacturing. So there may be really already a possibility there. But moreover this vitality concern, the bio-primarily based and renewable substrate supplies are already suitable with the printing know-how. It’s really fairly difficult to print these, for instance, paper as a substrate to conventional digital manufacturing. But for printing, it’s fairly simple as a result of you realize which you could print on paper, so utilizing that to make electronics is a form of simpler activity.
Cass: So are you able to discuss just a little bit about a few of the type of very concrete examples you’ve developed with a few of your companions?
Hakola: Yes. So if you consider the Sustronics program– so there are literally loads of improvement for these single-use diagnostic gadgets. So the objective is to develop the form of gadgets that individuals can really even use at house to measure one thing from their saliva, or they’ll monitor how the wound is therapeutic by having only a plaster-kind wearable system on the pores and skin. And different issues that we’re creating are additionally these different wearable gadgets that aren’t for single use, however they’re for sports activities and health sector the place you may monitor how you might be doing if you find yourself exercising and you’ll even measure your coronary heart fee, after which the app would– the app you’d have in your cell phone would then let you know primarily based on the measurement information that, okay, you probably did nicely right now or one thing else.
And one utility space that VTT has been creating rather a lot gadgets already within the earlier analysis applications are these options for clever packaging. So if we discuss in regards to the packaging trade, and there’s a lot of wants within the logistics of packages to measure, for instance, temperature to make it possible for the chilly chain has not been damaged and your merchandise will not be spoiling. So VTT has been creating electronics for that, like sensors connected to packages, digital sensors that may transmit data to cell phone. But if you consider the packaging trade, the packages are recyclable. So then really we’re including electronics there, then the sustainability of those form of good tags, how we may name them, could be a very essential facet to contemplate. And there, these new form of supplies like utilizing paper as a substrate for electronics have a very essential position.
Cass: And how lengthy do you suppose it’ll be earlier than we begin seeing these within the market as one thing that customers can type of see and really feel for themselves?
Hakola: Well, really, a few of them are already on {the marketplace}. Of course, not in actually big volumes. But there are, for instance, contract producers for printed electronics that manufacture one thing that’s used as part of a tool that’s offered out there. But in fact, we are able to’t print a cell phone with these form of applied sciences, a minimum of not but. So it relies upon. Perhaps a few of them are already there. For a few of them, it’d take three to 5 years, and a few even longer. But let’s say through the subsequent decade, there would definitely be product bulletins.
Cass: And so that you talked about producers. Where are these producers situated? Are they native producers, or is that this one thing that we are able to see that’s being built-in into the worldwide provide chain when it comes to these nice manufacturing facilities in China, for instance?
Hakola: Yeah. Well, in fact, the printed electronics contract producers, they aren’t actually giant corporations but. They are nonetheless on the early section, and they’re situated all all over the world. Probably fairly a lot of them within the Europe, as a result of in Europe, we’ve got been investigating printed electronics rather a lot. But yeah, there isn’t any concern why they couldn’t be a part of the worldwide provide chains. But as we expect, “What is the strategy of the EU?”, we really need to– the EU desires to additionally transfer once more again to the European provide chains additionally to type of keep the native strategic availability of key applied sciences. So I feel within the EU, there could be most likely fairly robust help sooner or later for making extra producers coming again to Europe or a minimum of establishing new manufacturing models to Europe.
Cass: So should you may wave a magic wand and resolve one downside proper now that’s in your desk, what would that be?
Hakola: Ah. Well, most likely I’d make the merchandise extra repairable or reusable. I’ve personally had some points with the gadgets not too long ago, and it has been a little bit of annoying that there isn’t any restore possibility. So I’ve been compelled to purchase new gadgets, though I’ve not needed to take action. So most likely I’d change the enterprise a bit that the restore would all the time be an possibility until you have got one thing that’s like 50 years outdated. Perhaps that will be a problem. But even for a 5-12 months-outdated system, it will be good to have a restore possibility. So I assume I’d develop the form of design for the electronics that they actually will be repaired or reused.
Cass: Can you discuss just a little bit extra about Finland’s historical past with— you stated it has this historical past popping out of the cellulose trade. So are you able to discuss just a little bit extra about that time, about how Finland’s expertise with cellulose and paper type of fed into this program?
Hakola: Yeah. Perhaps the background is in order that Finland has an extended historical past of paper and forest applied sciences. And the primary printed electronics initiatives that had been initiated in Finland greater than 20 years in the past, there the position of the paper corporations in Finland was actually robust. So really, a minimum of in Finland, how we began to research printed electronics, the initiative was involving numerous these forest trade corporations. And that’s how we additionally at VTT acquired concerned with utilizing cellulose-primarily based and paper as a substrate for electronics. And if you consider the sustainable electronics, the paper has been there first and solely later got here the opposite options like biopolymers. So I assume within the early stage, the paper trade was really on the lookout for new enterprise alternatives. And they thought that it may be discovered from printed electronics as a result of printing on paper is one thing that’s being accomplished on a regular basis. So that’s how I feel the factor began, a minimum of in Finland.
Cass: So it is a fascinating matter, which we may discuss all day, however I’m afraid we’ve got to go away it there. Today we had been speaking with Liisa Hakola from VTT about sustainable electronics. It was so beautiful to have you ever on the present.
Hakola: Thank you. It was beautiful being right here.
Cass: And for IEEE Spectrum, I’m Stephen Cass, and I hope you be a part of us subsequent time on Fixing the Future.